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Thread: Marriage? Where are we headed?

  1. #11
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    So far so good but keep it civil boys.
    VA Outdoors Tournament Director



  2. #12
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    I think its deeper than the "right" to get or be married, what I think Jim is getting at. We've as a country lost our moral compass, and have tried to legislate morality. I'm not put in a position to judge, that is reserved for God, we are put in a position to love and try to teach. Does a gay couple forming a civil union affect me? No it doesn't, But states like California already recognize civil unions between gay's, they get the same rights as a married couple. So they want more than just being recognized, they want to tear down a religious institution.

    This is more than "rights" to marriage, its about progressives dismantling our country and the belief system that got us to where we are. It's about trying to take God out of our lives and any reference to him. They want to change the DEFINITION of marriage and remove it from having anything to do with religion and blur the lines. Some might say Marriage is just a word what does it matter, why fight so hard to keep gays from using it, well why fight so hard to change the definition if its just a word, if you already get the tax breaks and benefits of a gay union then whats in a title?? If they want to have a union then let them, let them sign each others insurance papers, let them claim "couple" on their 1040's, but don't try to push on me and the rest of the country that its a marriage, or its holy, or even meant to be. One reason we were put here was to pro create, and God created boys and girls each with different parts for that reason, other provisions would have been made by our creator if it were meant to be the other way around.
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  3. #13
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    I'll stick to fishing and leave my political views on the political forums
    Steve Sekula
    "Sempr"


  4. #14
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    I think there are two discussions here which are very difficult to separate when one or the other is brought up. I totally understand Steve's point and the opposite side of the argument...but is this whole thing about children (which to me is the primary purpose of marriage/family/unions), or is it about benefits, healthcare and taxes?

    I think Jim's point here, as are a few others, is the breakdown of the 'traditional family' and the negative results of which we see every day. I feel, and this is only a feeling, that this country is probably the least family centered country that I can think of. We haven't always been that way, but that's where we've gone. Again - that's just my opinion. Something that I do not think is solely based on opinion though, is that there is absolutely nothing more valuable, and you can take all theological views out of it too, in a childs life and rearing than having BOTH a committed Father and Mother in the home, loving them, teaching them and caring for them - absolutely nothing better.

    Please feel free to read:
    https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation
    Wishin' I was fishin'...
    www.lds.org


  5. #15
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    The first big problem accured when they told parents not to smack your kids on the butt. There is a difference between child abuse and a good wipping.Since then school crime and other juvinile crimes are way up. Kids do and talk to there parents however they want and there punishment is go to your room were you have computer,phone,tv video games. Real good lesson taught there. It does not really affect me. The country is really going down hill fast. They can do what they want because this is america land of the free but where does it stop. The goverment is funding illegal aliens and supporting countries that really dont affect us.Thats my opionons for whats its worth.
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  6. #16
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    This is a very interesting conversation. When the government came out and wanted to massively restrict gun sales, everyone rightly got upset. One of my points in a gun thread was I don't want the government to intrude on our freedoms, YET, many are actually upset that the goverment may roll back their current restrictions on Gay Unions. I am trying to be consistent here. I don't want the government in my bedroom, my gun safe, and I want them to treat all citizens the same. No free handouts to voter blocks, etc. While I am quite happy to be heterosexual and married, I rest more easily knowing when I die, the government won't tax the living hell out of my estate that I built up after paying taxes on it when I earned it initially. Basically the government is stealing from these tax paying citizens and I don't think the government should. Don't we all want less government intrusion in our lives? To me, this is what we are talking about and what this issue should be about. I am not blind to the other linkages and I understand the repulsion many feel.

    If you want to discuss "moral" decay, I get everyones comments, but we could pick any period in history and I can point out some "distrubing" practices and realities that I think many don't think about as they should. I actually think the world is a better place with laws like this as we are a more inclusive secular society and we don't just push our issues off in to the "Closet" that don't effect us personally and just let "them" deal with it. The Catholic church tried that and it didn't work so well for them did it? Intolerance is a big problem in the world, just look at the muslim countries and their civil wars created by it and also realize we are from the same species as they are and we are not wired that different. We could easily allow ourselves to become this way.

    Jim's morals have not decayed, he is still the same upstanding, great Christian, I just think we live in an age where our knowledge of what is really going on in the world is at all time highs.

    my last post on this. I think all the posters have done a great job of expressing themselves without getting personal. Nice to see that so many with different views can actually discuss and agree to disagree. That is progress!
    cheers,
    Steve

    2011/2013 St Jude's Charity Tournament Champion
    Bass East Big Bass Challenge winner of 11-12 and 12-1 hours.


  7. #17
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    I dont really fall on either side. But if they want to marry. Let them.. but i also see a dark side to all this.. when the first church refuses to marry them.. will the govt step in and force the church. Will the govt go after the church and remove the tax exept status they now recieve. What happens in states such as florida where the husband must pay the legal bills of the spouse when getting divorced? Where does it end..

    "They call Mike the tin man, not because he has an aluminum boat but because he has no heart..." ~ Squire

  8. #18
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    I'm not too worried about our moral decay, I grew up in the fifties and sixties and everyone said we were all going to hell but we made it. I don't care who you marry, if you marry or why you marry but basically we all should be treated as equals and thats what this is all about, equal protection under the law. The goverment can't give married people special rights then deny other people the right to marry unless they are going to take all those special rights away from all the married people.

  9. #19
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    The goverment already controlls marriage in most states. Try getting married without a license that you buy from the government. I guess someone will be the dedicated husband on the new license. Churches don't have allow anyone to marry in their building they don't want to.

  10. #20
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    I agree Steve, I don't want the Gov't micromanaging our lives. If gays want to join and have a union with the same rights and protections as a Married couple let them, not my place or the governments to say its ok or not, But whats hard for alot of people is they seem intent of taking down traditional Marriage and changing the definition of it. I'm sure there is some point of compromise in there where a Marriage can remain a religious traditional type situation, but gays can get their union and the rights and or privileges that come along with that contract.

    But like Mike said, I don't like "Big Brother" telling states or the country if gay marriage is legal or not, because we all know its opening the door to force institutions to accept things that are against their beliefs, as in the catholic church being forced to provide contraception.

    When you open the door for legislators to make these type of decisions it gives them the power to ammend and give and take those rights as they feel. The power was within the people and should still be there, when voting and giving that power up to the government, just imagine the worst person you can think of and ask yourself if you'd like them to make your choices for you, because while you may like who is in office now and think their great, the next person you may not trust to flush the toilet for you.
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