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Thread: Why does God allow suffering?

  1. #41
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    Hey Steve; I don’t want to steal any thunder from Teddy but I will chime in a little. I goggled the following question; “How old is the earth” according to science and the bible. And much has been written about that subject. Genesis 1 says “In the beginning God created the heavens (Heavens being plural) and the earth”. Now it doesn’t say when; it just says that “In the beginning”. Nor does it say how long it took God to Create the heavens and the earth. This tells me that the earth can very well be billions of years old; and that would not surprise me one bit. I have a lot more to study about this of course but nowhere does it say God created the heavens and the earth in six days; not that I can see anyway.

    Here are a few more of my observations: In Genesis 2 “Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

    Within the six days God took to finish his work only a few more times did he use the word “CREATE”; one of which was when he created man. A lot of what he said was “Let there be light”; or “Let the earth bring forth grass” etc. The use of the words “Create and Let” were chosen for a specific reason; a reason that makes a difference. The word create is used a few more times in genesis and it’s also frequently used along with the word “made”. I.E. Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good”. I have learned to pay attention to the little things now; like I noticed there is a period following the phase “And it was so. Does that mean it’s an end to a thought or action prior to beginning the second half of it? Maybe it’s something; or maybe it’s nothing. How about; Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: um? Let the earth bring forth? A form of evolution maybe? I don’t know yet. But I will study it and find out.

    I do not understand yet why or what the purpose is in the use or the relationship between these two words Create and Made; but there is a reason for it. I suspect it will somehow provide a reasonable explanation in how evolution played a part in all of this or did not play a part in it as we understand “The Secular view of the Evolution Theory”.

    I have a lot more of studying to do; but I can see already how christianity and science can co-exist;

    Very recently I learned a very important lesson in how carefully I have to read Gods word. Having said that I have to go back and review everything that I have learned and assumed about god’s word in the past. It isn’t that Gods word is untrue, nor has it changed my trust and faith in God; it’s just a matter of reading it carefully and not adding to it. Actually it’s exciting to tell the truth; and it goes with what Teddy so wisely stated: IE; it’s a matter of trust. The bottom line is; do you trust what god says is true? After seeing the errors I myself am guilty of; I can see why people have lost trust in what they have heard about God. I will not put all the blame on them / us because it’s still a matter of personal responsibility. I have faith; built on trust in him that he can do what he said he did, does, and will do.

    Science can answer the How question; but not the Why; Gods tells me the Why; but not How he does things. Seems like a good marriage to me. The answers are there. We just have to find them!
    2010 VAO Polar Bear Overall Winner
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by just1more View Post
    Hey Steve; I don’t want to steal any thunder from Teddy but I will chime in a little. I goggled the following question; “How old is the earth” according to science and the bible. And much has been written about that subject. Genesis 1 says “In the beginning God created the heavens (Heavens being plural) and the earth”. Now it doesn’t say when; it just says that “In the beginning”. Nor does it say how long it took God to Create the heavens and the earth. This tells me that the earth can very well be billions of years old; and that would not surprise me one bit. I have a lot more to study about this of course but nowhere does it say God created the heavens and the earth in six days; not that I can see anyway.

    Here are a few more of my observations: In Genesis 2 “Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

    Within the six days God took to finish his work only a few more times did he use the word “CREATE”; one of which was when he created man. A lot of what he said was “Let there be light”; or “Let the earth bring forth grass” etc. The use of the words “Create and Let” were chosen for a specific reason; a reason that makes a difference. The word create is used a few more times in genesis and it’s also frequently used along with the word “made”. I.E. Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good”. I have learned to pay attention to the little things now; like I noticed there is a period following the phase “And it was so. Does that mean it’s an end to a thought or action prior to beginning the second half of it? Maybe it’s something; or maybe it’s nothing. I don’t know yet. But I will study it and find out.

    I do not understand yet why or what the purpose is in the use or the relationship between these two words Create and Made; but there is a reason for it. I suspect it will somehow provide a reasonable explanation in how evolution played a part in all of this or did not play a part in it as we understand “The Secular view of the Evolution Theory”.

    I have a lot more of studying to do; but I can see already how God, his word, and science can co-exist;

    Very recently I learned a very important lesson in how carefully I have to read Gods word. Having said that I have to go back and review everything that I have learned and assumed about god’s word in the past. It isn’t that Gods word is untrue, nor has it changed my trust and faith in God; it’s just a matter of reading it carefully and not adding to it. Actually it’s exciting to tell the truth; and it goes with what Teddy so wisely stated: IE; it’s a matter of trust. The bottom line is; do you trust what god says is true? After seeing the errors I myself am guilty of; I can see why people have lost trust in what they have heard about God. I will not put all the blame on them / us because it’s still a matter of personal responsibility. I have faith; built on trust in him that he can do what he said he did, does, and will do.

    Science can answer the How question; but not the Why; Gods tells me the Why; but not How he does things. Seems like a good marriage to me. The answers are there. We just have to find them!
    here is a good explanation of why biblical scholars put the world at 6000 years old (not 4.5 billion)...http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...w-old-is-earth
    cheers,
    Steve

    2011/2013 St Jude's Charity Tournament Champion
    Bass East Big Bass Challenge winner of 11-12 and 12-1 hours.


  3. #43
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    I got that steve. I read the same thing. But they are by-passing or ignoring the very first verse IE in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth followed by a period. Then goes on with a new thought from there? Not being arguementive here. Just saying we need to read it carefully what it says. Before they can just jump to the 6 day creation theory they need to deal with the whole scripture verse by verse. NOw when I see that the alarm bells go off. I do not take that artical at face vaule at all.
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  4. #44
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    Crank That Jank!

  5. #45
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    Good read Wayne. The new heaven and new earth are mentioned in my next planned post. I just am waiting on Teddy to finish his thought before. Until then

    Rev 20-11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

    Rev 21-1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    How about no eternal suffering or tourment in hell for the unsaved? Say what? I think true through. I am sure you guys will let me know lol.
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  6. #46
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    sorry Jim- didnt mean to jump the gun on ya
    Crank That Jank!

  7. #47
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    no issues with me buddy. The more the merrier lol. Great intro from my good friend!
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  8. #48
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    Steve thank you for that endless promotion of Outdoor Action even here in the inspirational page it makes me grin ear to ear every time you say we had 9 fish over 4-pounds and that one Brian caught was a beast.
    I take the word of God literally without blinking. Science does not co-exist with God’s word it exists within Gods creation. Science can be and has been as destructive as religion; man uses it to control one another all the time. I point this out to show that science is very fallible. Jim is in the right neighborhood and knocking on the right door. This misunderstanding is literary and the meaning of verbs in Hebrew and English translations not of science and it’s in the very first verse of the Bible. When read in the original Hebrew text the verb bara (ברא ) means “had created”. Now when it was translated to English because the English use tense in almost every sentence they speak, they just used “created” (past tense) both meaning the same thing, that the Universes plural (Heavens) and the earth had already been created. Typically, the KJV translators used the simple English past tense for the completed action Hebrew verbs. The translators didn’t do anything wrong they just translated as they speak. It is crystal clear that the universes and the earth had already been created. For how long the bible doesn’t say, nowhere in the bible does it say the actual age of the earth. The reason why is, to God it’s not important the Bible is not a science book although it talks of it a lot, (I will elaborate) it’s based on the relationship that God wants to have with us not us validating him. As for evolution I believe in it from the stand point that it is a part of life as it was created by God as God created everything in its own order, classification, and category. God gave us all the ability to evolve to adapt to living conditions.
    There is however some interesting science that occurs in the Bible. Remember the challenge I threw out about the very first verse in the Bible “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”. Here God puts forth the concept of time and space and matter. Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing. Add this and we have the theory of Special Relativity, how long did it take us to come up with that.
    Job 38:16 “Have you entered into the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? This speaks of the vents found in oceans and seas as well as canyons. Job was around way before old Jacques Cousteau.
    The earth is round: Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
    Job 26:10 “He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters at the boundary of light and darkness”. Job 26 is about man’s frailty and Gods Power.
    Just some fun Bible facts there are a lot more references to the study of God’s Creation (science) in the Bible these are just some of my favorites.
    Jim go ahead I won’t be able to conclude on this subject till Thursday got to work on duck blinds tomorrow…..

  9. #49
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    I was just wanting to comment, add one thing I have learned over the years,and say I have enjoyed reading these posts by everyone. I am and always have been a deeply religiously connected person but respect each person's right to go as they please. I attend church regularly and have done so since I was born. I enjoy gathering every Sunday, pausing busy schedules for one day to give thanks and reflect on what I am so richly blessed with. At 24 I am a recent college graduate and recently married and have since found "my religion" if you will. Like many of you, I am at peace outdoors and am simply amazed at what grandeur is available to the naked eye if we could just stop--if only for a moment. Sitting quietly in the woods at dawn, when it's 23 degrees, during a hunting season has revealed to me a peace that makes it hard to argue the existence of God.

    As a young child I grew up outdoors and subsequently chose to get my degree in biology. Not all of the classes I took were intriguing to me but in each one I discovered that science and religion DO mix, at least for me it did. Learning about the interactions of cells, chemical signals that triggered cell division, the conception of a child and it's subsequent development;some parts must happen so precisely, and do in most of the world's population, that I can't imagine life existing without a Creator. I could go on and on. We have squid on this earth that have symbionts within their guts that allow the squid to bioluminesce. Not only that, they have the ability to match the exact lumens produced and angle of moonlight casting downward on the squid. From underneath, the squid vanishes. It can not be located by predators. Alas, I could say more but my point would be lost. Science affirms my faith and strengthens my argument for God. How can such intricacies occur without him? I realize I might be a little off the original topic just wanted to preach a minute.

  10. #50
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    Teddy, my respect for you was not what it should have been. I apologize for not appreciating your love of history and the subject matter. You are a extremely articulate and intelligent person in my estimation. Thank you. We don't see the world in the same lenses but I so appreciate your intellect and appreciation of your logic....here here...whoop whoop...well said...
    cheers,
    Steve

    2011/2013 St Jude's Charity Tournament Champion
    Bass East Big Bass Challenge winner of 11-12 and 12-1 hours.


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